tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271070635803066707.post8600929787891917638..comments2011-12-12T23:28:17.478+00:00Comments on Patriotism is not enough: The future is fundamentalist?mrszkhanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01080135849392406252noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271070635803066707.post-55094583205198746392011-12-12T23:28:17.478+00:002011-12-12T23:28:17.478+00:00Anonymous 1: I didn’t quite understand your comme...Anonymous 1: I didn’t quite understand your comment, but I think it is those who wanted the article banned who were the ones who were not prepared to listen to a contrary opinion. They could have voiced or sent in their objections to the paper – just like you did. I understand that the paper did give the option, but some were determined to have the original article removed.<br /><br />Anonymous 2: you have raised specific issues regarding the content of the article, but as I said in my post, it is the reaction that I am most concerned with here. However, the fact that you have stated your objections reasonably and coherently proves that it can be done and that it should have been allowed to be done, rather than the hysterical reaction of some. My complaint is against these few, more so because they were educated and in professions that require a more reasoned approach to issues.<br /><br />The examples you raise strike me as mockery not hate. Hate is a very strong word that raises strong emotions. I think it is used far too readily these days and only serves to blow things out of proportion or as an excuse to avoid talking about something. <br /><br />Blue Wit: I assume you were agreeing with me (or was it Rehan?!), but either way thank you. <br /><br />Rehan and Anonymous 3/Nousheen<br /><br />Your comments raise several issues that, I think, would be good material for a separate post – and perhaps I may be tempted to do just that. However there is a general aspect to your comments and that is whether one should ever comment. <br /><br />Of course, people will have their own views on this, but my response would be yes. I am not in favour of bans. I would much rather people spoke openly, instead of being politically correct or stifled from discussing issues. It doesn’t stop people thinking the thoughts, but it does drive them underground where they do far more damage. Nothing mentioned in the article was new – I grew up in Pakistan and heard the same stories several decades ago. The only difference is that it was done in whispers and behind closed doors. As for the analogy with the Holocaust Denial laws in Germany (and in other European countries, too) that, I think, is a special case as the atrocity occurred there. I don’t think the situation is comparable and besides no one is denying that a battle took place at Kerbala. <br /><br />Another issue is that of causing offence. Offence is an emotion and subjective. Appealing to being offended, I think, is a convenient way of postponing debating issues. The article may have talked about practices in perhaps a less serious tone than some would have liked, but it did not at any point advocate violence, so no one was in physical danger. <br /><br />Finally, and this follows from my previous point and something I mentioned in the post. The target audience was an educated, English speaking minority and not the man or woman on the street, so to speak. What I find depressing is that it was some within this educated group who sought to stir up matters, rather than set an example and debate the issue rationally and calmly.<br /><br />Anyway, thank you all once again for commenting.mrszkhanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01080135849392406252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271070635803066707.post-7471456477216465532011-12-12T08:45:16.698+00:002011-12-12T08:45:16.698+00:00Dear all who commented
First, thank you for takin...Dear all who commented<br /><br />First, thank you for taking the time to leave a comment. I appreciate it. Your comments filled me with hope because regardless of whether you agreed with me or not, all of you remained polite and most of you stated your views coherently, some more forcefully than others, but you proved that it can be done and that you are willing to do it. Another important point was that those who objected explained their point of view, so that I (and others) could understand why you would object to the article. But this is rather different from going hysterical and demanding that it be taken down and that the issue should never be discussed. No one is the wiser then.<br /><br />Forgive me if I sound like a teacher, but – I AM a teacher! And it is precisely these attributes I try to cultivate in my students. We need to encourage this in Pakistan (and more generally) if we are ever to progress and not spend all our time and energy bullying and killing each other, whether in the cyber sphere, the playground or in the streets.<br /><br />I am a little busy this morning (giving certificates to my students, as it happens), but I promise I will reply individually to your comments.<br /><br />Thanks again.mrszkhanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01080135849392406252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271070635803066707.post-91927972920072241672011-12-11T23:05:20.034+00:002011-12-11T23:05:20.034+00:00I am a Pakistani girl. I moved to Germany for doin...I am a Pakistani girl. I moved to Germany for doing my PhD in 2005. I lived in that country for four years and it changed me forever. After reading this article of yours I have a feeling that you do not really understand or get the sensitivity attached to the issue in concern that’s why I must tell you in a scenario that is more familiar to you. You might know that there are plenty of people in Pakistan who are openly anti-Semitic and denial of Holocaust is so common that it is unimaginable for a Western person. When I moved to Germany I had no idea of the cultural norms regarding this issue. I lived there I visited several places like Dachau and I was shocked. Then I came to know how important it is to stop Holocaust Denial. You will be surprised to know that in Pakistan when people have to prove that West is also not as liberated in terms of freedom of speech they give the example of laws against Holocaust denial. Without even understanding the effects of this denial they keep on saying that see how hypocrite Western world is. They don’t get it that humanity cannot afford such a cruel event again. So if someone does not know the effect of this event and the reasons for the authoritative measures taken against the Holocaust denial they simply cannot get it. Same is true for saying something against Shia rituals or the battle of Karbala in our society. There is a lot cultural sensitivity associated with this issue. You have to be there to get it. And I am sure this guy you are referring to if he is by descent Pakistani or Muslim he must be aware of that issue. And as Rehan said “the fact that Shias are persecuted in Pakistan probably contributes to people getting over sensitive to this article”. My relatives and friends died in one of these Moharram processions two years ago in Karachi. Off course I am sensitive about this issue. What is wrong with somebody mourning if he is not hurting someone else? Does he deserve to die? Pushing someone to wall only makes him more rigid. And by the way normally Pakistanis are so much against valentine’s day, mother’s day, father’s day etc. They always say that these are not our festivities these events belong to West and even some claim these events to be unislamic. So why is there is an out of the blue need to celebrate New Year which is also not our cultural festivity. Trust me this friend of yours wanted this to happen. Because if he is from Pakistan he knew it. It was just an attention-seeking attempt. As some people want their books to be banned so that the sell more. I am really sorry if I said something rude but as I said I am sensitive about this issue.<br />Nousheen Zaidi<br />Twitter @nzzaidiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271070635803066707.post-90467181127522911062011-12-11T21:26:37.165+00:002011-12-11T21:26:37.165+00:00You evaded the central issue quite conveniently. S...You evaded the central issue quite conveniently. Saleem Ali did not question beliefs or practices. He accused Shia of "being high" on "God knows what". Which means that he was accusing shias of substance abuse. When someone's slander plummets to such depths of illogic and bias, you can assume with 100% confidence that the motivation behind the "message" is not reconciliation, but hate.<br /><br />You did not quote this particular line from Saleem Ali's article, nor did you address it. If you were to conduct an honest appraisal of what he wrote and the reaction to it, you would find that there is no defense possible - whatsoever - for such slander.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271070635803066707.post-65832853630580334392011-12-11T17:14:01.643+00:002011-12-11T17:14:01.643+00:00You're right.You're right.Blue Withttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07088390427526388366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271070635803066707.post-50470698832156691822011-12-11T16:30:34.986+00:002011-12-11T16:30:34.986+00:00I would just like to point out that not all 'l...I would just like to point out that not all 'liberal, educated' people thought the article was 'hate speech' or called for it to be taken off the website. It was just a few hysterical people on twitter that drowned everyone else out, as is usually the case. Also, the fact that Shias are persecuted in Pakistan probably contributes to people getting over sensitive to this article. While that may not be a good enough reason to censor it (and I certainly don't think it is!), that context must be taken into account in any discussion of this issue.Rehannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4271070635803066707.post-16882852281250547712011-12-11T16:13:20.000+00:002011-12-11T16:13:20.000+00:00so self righteous...and it's hip anyways to ca...so self righteous...and it's hip anyways to call everyone a fundo ...don't listen, don't respect...just keep your own views paramount....so much for your tolerance madam?/sir?<br /><br />btw did Saleem get threats and police custody in US sounds like an exaggeration!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com